Libertarians & Ovens

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ziggy_encaoua
Number 531
Conspirator for: 15 years 45 weeks
Posted on: September 1, 2009 - 12:58am

 

Few years back I knew this guy called Phil though I often refer to him as Anarchoboy as he described himself as an anarchist but really like all other left wing anarchists was a total socialist. Anyways Phil or Anarchoboy was also a bit of a Chav & like many Chavs he liked to go out on a Friday night & kill brain cells with pints of beer. Now I'm a libertarian & therefore I've no problem with people ingesting whatever substances into their body whether it be beer or crack as I believe its their body & therefore their choice. However just because I think a person has the right to drink themselves stupid it doesn't necessarily mean I think it's a good idea to do so. It was always something of a bone of contention between me & Anarchoboy that I'd not applaud him getting hammered every Friday night.

Thing is many mistakenly think that if you're a libertarian then because you believe in individual choice then a libertarian shouldn't pass judgement on the choices others make for their own lives or that libertarians should applaud what ever choices people make for their lives. Well that's like saying I must applaud somebody if they choose to stick their head in the oven. Hey just because I think somebody has the right to stick their head in the oven doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to do so. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea. This always confuses the statists of all varieties because they seem to think if something ain't good for you then logically it should be banned. Thing is if you get into that argument you'd end up having things like cheese banned & kind of the world depicted in the film Demolition Man.

So just because I think you have the right to do something & I believe you should have the right to do a lot more then government currently allows you to do & a lot, a lot, a lot, more then future governments will allow you to do if current trends persist. However despite this I often get criticized for criticizing the cultural choices of others. Hmm its as if people seem to think that I can't say whether I like a film, book or CD that somebody is lording. Err of course I can & I jolly fucking will say what I think is shite or what rocks.

What people don't get about libertarians is that though we might be judgmental on cultural stuff (as everybody else is) we ain't going to be banning anything. I guess people know that I've nothing but distain for Chav culture but I ain't suggesting that fast food joints or reality TV shows should be banned even though I detest them. Where as a statist a person who believes in using the armed force of the state might very ban crap they don't like various video games or those types of porn that feature humans & animals.

The nub of the issue about being libertarian & having strong opinions is that people just don't like people having strong opinions & so will try & libertarianism against anybody who proclaims themselves a libertarian such as "If your somebody who believes in free choice then how dare you pass judgment upon the choices I've made". Back to the original story that inspired this rant & that with Anarchoboy there was something of an irony, being that where as he thought it wrong for me to be judgemental about his own foolish actions yet he was so judgmental about shall we say 'the boys in the city', which is pretty fucking typical of leftie anarchists they think people should be free but just not to make a profit.


User offline. Last seen 11 years 44 weeks ago.
Brainwashed
Number 586
Brainwashed's picture
Conspirator for: 15 years 22 weeks
Posted on: September 19, 2009 - 11:40pm #1

You telling anarchy boy not to get fucked up so much is showing you care, don't seem to have anything to do with politics to me...


User offline. Last seen 10 years 39 weeks ago.
LysanderSpooner
Number 234
Conspirator for: 16 years 46 weeks
Posted on: September 20, 2009 - 9:30am #2

Ziggy,

I agree with your observations.  I think the libertarians who criticize fellow libertarians for passing judgment tend to be former liberals.  Liberals don't like to make moral distinctions among people.  I think they feel it is somehow discriminatory or bigoted.  For them, this is the biggest "sin".  They also assume, as you said, that all people who judge would like to back that judgment up with laws.

For this same reason, this is why I respect religious people, even if they're not libertarians.  They are willing to put themselves out there and pronounce something wrong.  Whether I agree with them is immaterial.  They may be hypocrites and they may also want laws.  But that's irrelevant and a separate issue. 

__________________

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it

Learned Hand

In the past men created witches: now they create mental patients.
Thomas Szasz

Relinquish liberty for the purposes of defense in an emergency?
Why? It would seem that in an emergency, of all times, one needs
his greatest strength. So if liberty is strength and slavery is weakness,
liberty is a necessity rather than a luxury, and we can ill afford
to be without it—least of all during an emergency.

F.A. Harper


User offline. Last seen 12 years 30 weeks ago.
ziggy_encaoua
Number 531
Conspirator for: 15 years 45 weeks
Posted on: September 20, 2009 - 2:53pm #3

LysanderSpooner wrote:

I think the libertarians who criticize fellow libertarians for passing judgment tend to be former liberals.  Liberals don't like to make moral distinctions among people.  I think they feel it is somehow discriminatory or bigoted.  For them, this is the biggest "sin".  They also assume, as you said, that all people who judge would like to back that judgment up with laws.

Firstly in my experience its not been so much about other libertarians criticizing me as a libertarian its more people who don't like libertarianism or who think I'm an arrogant shit who try & catch me out by using my support for free choice against me.


User offline. Last seen 10 years 39 weeks ago.
LysanderSpooner
Number 234
Conspirator for: 16 years 46 weeks
Posted on: September 22, 2009 - 4:42pm #4

I think your sentiment is encapsulized in the liberal cliche, "Who gives you the right...".  As though you don't have a right to judge someone else.


User offline. Last seen 12 years 30 weeks ago.
ziggy_encaoua
Number 531
Conspirator for: 15 years 45 weeks
Posted on: September 21, 2009 - 1:35pm #5

Here's a recent if small example of what I'm talking about

http://www.the-bastard.com/index.php?section=40&page=1094

Look at the first comment in the comments section


User offline. Last seen 11 years 44 weeks ago.
Brainwashed
Number 586
Brainwashed's picture
Conspirator for: 15 years 22 weeks
Posted on: September 21, 2009 - 11:15pm #6

I totally want to bang posh... wait.. what..