A Turkey Voting For Xmas or Somebody Who Believes They Actually Have Talent?
ziggy_encaoua
Number 531
Conspirator for: 15 years 45 weeks
Posted on: September 4, 2009 - 5:54am
Last weekend I had somewhat of a heated debate with Lawrie an old school friend of mine who is now a prominent member of the Green Party so as one might imagine pretty much a hardcore socialist.
Lawrie started off by saying I was naïve to be applauding James Murdoch critical remarks regarding the BBC, yeah its like Lawrie's being at all naïve in thinking that socialism can work when the likes of Milton Friedman & Friedrich von Hayek have proven that socialism doesn't work.
Lawrie in fact once said to me of Milton Friedman that "What Bin Laden is to Islam Milton Freidman was to economics", yeah well in fact it's the likes Milton Friedman who are responsible for the prosperity we've enjoyed in the west for the past quarter of a century. Okay we are no longer exactly living in prosperous times & I'm certain like with the left in general Lawrie would blame Friedman for the recent economic turbulence & downturn. Yeah well I never heard Friedman suggest that we should have a system of a semi free market economy where monolith corporations get bailed out by their buddies in government when they seriously fuck up; but I heard the lefties' favourite John Maynard Keynes suggest such a corporatist system. Nope I heard the likes of Friedman, Hayek & Rothbard not argue for there being a corporatist semi free market but there generally being a genuine free market.
My rather heated debate started with what James Murdoch had to say about the BBC but moved to the benefits of there being a free market though of course Lawrie being a socialist doesn't see there being many benefits of there being a free market. In fact Lawrie said to me that being as a disabled person my support for the free market was like "A turkey voting for Xmas". Yeah because being a disabled person I've no skill, talent or initiative. I've encountered this kind of bullshit before that people presume that if you're a person with physical disabilities as I have then you're going to automatically be in favour of big government & the welfare state.
About eighteen months ago I had a pamphlet published by the Libertarian Alliance that subject of which as you can read was about that not all disabled people are in favour of big government well certainly not this disabled person.
Lawrie & many on the left would say that I'm being a hypercritic for arguing in favour of far smaller government & an end to government sponsored welfare, being as there have been times in my life when I've been a welfare recipient. In answer to that I'd firstly say out of the practicality of circumstance to keep alive yes I've been a welfare recipient but I'd say that I've never believed I'm 'entitled' to welfare & secondly if there wasn't government sponsored welfare then they'd be voluntary charity providing welfare for the most needy. I'm often met with the argument that if there weren't government then they'd be no provision for those who are far more disabled then me...oh so people aren't able to make voluntary donations to charities who can provide services for disabled people. Of course we can only provide services for the needy by the means of collecting donations by force & not via collecting by voluntary means because nobody ever voluntary donates to any charity. Of course then Lawrie & many on the left will say that charities wouldn't be able to meet the need for welfare...hmm does government currently adequately meet the needs of the disable, vulnerable & etc?
I'm not saying that a free market operating without any hindrance from government will be any kind of utopia but it would be far better then the corporatist free market which we have now. In the course of the debate I & my friend Lawrie had he started calling me a free market theist but unlike some other lefties I've known he didn't start to emotively snarl at me. As I say a genuine free market would be no utopia but it would give far greater opportunity to people even the disabled. You see that lefties like Lawrie don't understand that libertarians wouldn't have the present corporatist situation where big business can favours from government. The kind of free market libertarians where everybody has far greater freedom of opportunity to sell their goods & services, but libertarians don't support the kind of situation where the corporations have the apparatus as in government to manipulate the market in their favour & keeping the little man down. Basically libertarians want there to a market free enough where anybody has the opportunity to sell whatever & succeed on their own merit not favours from government.
Its ironic that libertarians & anarcho-capitalists have often been accused by the left for somehow supporting big business yet its not been the left that have been the biggest critics who have been the biggest critics of ever encroaching fascistic state we live in & the loss of liberty, its in fact been libertarian who have been the biggest critics.
Last weekend I had somewhat of a heated debate with Lawrie an old school friend of mine who is now a prominent member of the Green Party so as one might imagine pretty much a hardcore socialist.
Lawrie started off by saying I was naïve to be applauding James Murdoch critical remarks regarding the BBC, yeah its like Lawrie's being at all naïve in thinking that socialism can work when the likes of Milton Friedman & Friedrich von Hayek have proven that socialism doesn't work.
Lawrie in fact once said to me of Milton Friedman that "What Bin Laden is to Islam Milton Freidman was to economics", yeah well in fact it's the likes Milton Friedman who are responsible for the prosperity we've enjoyed in the west for the past quarter of a century. Okay we are no longer exactly living in prosperous times & I'm certain like with the left in general Lawrie would blame Friedman for the recent economic turbulence & downturn. Yeah well I never heard Friedman suggest that we should have a system of a semi free market economy where monolith corporations get bailed out by their buddies in government when they seriously fuck up; but I heard the lefties' favourite John Maynard Keynes suggest such a corporatist system. Nope I heard the likes of Friedman, Hayek & Rothbard not argue for there being a corporatist semi free market but there generally being a genuine free market.
My rather heated debate started with what James Murdoch had to say about the BBC but moved to the benefits of there being a free market though of course Lawrie being a socialist doesn't see there being many benefits of there being a free market. In fact Lawrie said to me that being as a disabled person my support for the free market was like "A turkey voting for Xmas". Yeah because being a disabled person I've no skill, talent or initiative. I've encountered this kind of bullshit before that people presume that if you're a person with physical disabilities as I have then you're going to automatically be in favour of big government & the welfare state.
About eighteen months ago I had a pamphlet published by the Libertarian Alliance that subject of which as you can read was about that not all disabled people are in favour of big government well certainly not this disabled person.
Lawrie & many on the left would say that I'm being a hypercritic for arguing in favour of far smaller government & an end to government sponsored welfare, being as there have been times in my life when I've been a welfare recipient. In answer to that I'd firstly say out of the practicality of circumstance to keep alive yes I've been a welfare recipient but I'd say that I've never believed I'm 'entitled' to welfare & secondly if there wasn't government sponsored welfare then they'd be voluntary charity providing welfare for the most needy. I'm often met with the argument that if there weren't government then they'd be no provision for those who are far more disabled then me...oh so people aren't able to make voluntary donations to charities who can provide services for disabled people. Of course we can only provide services for the needy by the means of collecting donations by force & not via collecting by voluntary means because nobody ever voluntary donates to any charity. Of course then Lawrie & many on the left will say that charities wouldn't be able to meet the need for welfare...hmm does government currently adequately meet the needs of the disable, vulnerable & etc?
I'm not saying that a free market operating without any hindrance from government will be any kind of utopia but it would be far better then the corporatist free market which we have now. In the course of the debate I & my friend Lawrie had he started calling me a free market theist but unlike some other lefties I've known he didn't start to emotively snarl at me. As I say a genuine free market would be no utopia but it would give far greater opportunity to people even the disabled. You see that lefties like Lawrie don't understand that libertarians wouldn't have the present corporatist situation where big business can favours from government. The kind of free market libertarians where everybody has far greater freedom of opportunity to sell their goods & services, but libertarians don't support the kind of situation where the corporations have the apparatus as in government to manipulate the market in their favour & keeping the little man down. Basically libertarians want there to a market free enough where anybody has the opportunity to sell whatever & succeed on their own merit not favours from government.
Its ironic that libertarians & anarcho-capitalists have often been accused by the left for somehow supporting big business yet its not been the left that have been the biggest critics who have been the biggest critics of ever encroaching fascistic state we live in & the loss of liberty, its in fact been libertarian who have been the biggest critics.